The power of solitude

Being alone often gets a bad rap.

But research shows alone time can actually boost overall well-being, increasing our emotional regulation, contentment and creativity.

Today, On Point: The power of solitude.

Thuy-vy Nguyen, associate professor in psychology at Durham University. She runs the Solitude Lab at Durham University. Co-author of “Solitude: The Science and Power of Being Alone.”

Excerpt from “Solitude: The Science and Power of Being Alone" by Thuy-vy Nguyen. Not to be reprinted without permission of the publisher. All rights reserved.

Part I

ABBY: I love solitude. I require solitude.

NIKKI BENDER: I'm very at peace with my own company. And yesterday I had some rotten bananas and I made banana bread.

GEOFFRY MEISSNER: A big part of my being alone is, is hiking. I love to get out in the woods, uh, mountains or valleys. I love sitting by a babbling stream, listening to the birds. Uh, it's sort of centering.

COURTNEY BIERMAN: I've always been someone who goes to movies by myself. I've traveled by myself. My twin sister who I live with now is totally the opposite. She just needs to be around people all the time.

ABBY: The sheer pleasure of just being able to sit in a room and look at four walls, and the next thing I know, an hour has gone by because I've been thinking and dreaming and I can only do that when I'm by myself.

NIKKI BENDER: I'll admit there are times where I've thought is there something wrong with me that I'm so comfortable being alone? And then I think, no, it's okay. It is okay that I'm alone and that I'm comfortable this way. I'm blissfully comfortable this way.

ANTHONY CANCIAN: The reason I love it so much is really, I think, out of necessity. Our society is just in overwhelm mode when it comes to stimulation. And it's difficult to turn it off.

COURTNEY BIERMAN: I'm a pretty anxious person, and I really, I spend a lot of time worrying about what other people think of me. Um, and so that's kind of the only time that I don't have to worry what anybody else is thinking about me. I can just exist.

NIKKI BENDER: I so treasure my alone time. I just want to speak up for it.

MEGHNA CHAKRABARTI: That was Nikki Bender of Wisconsin, Courtney Bierman of Nebraska, Anthony Cancian of North Carolina, Abby of New York and Geoffry Meissner of Maine, reflecting on the joys of solitude. Not loneliness, mind you, but … solitude.

Thuy-vy Nguyen joins us today. She’s an associate professor in psychology, and head of the Solitude Lab at Durham University in the UK. She also runs the Solitude Lab there. She’s co-author of the new book- “Solitude: The Science and Power of Being Alone.”

Professor Nguyen, welcome to On Point.

THUY-VY NGUYEN: Hello, Meghna. Thanks for having me today.

CHAKRABARTI: Let me ask you first, do you seek out solitude yourself? And if so, how and where do you find it?

NGUYEN: Yes, definitely. Every morning, actually, I would wake up earlier than my family and just take a few moments. My favorite things is first let my dogs out in the garden, in the backyard.

And then make my cup of coffee. And then just at that very specific spot on my sofa, that's like my spot. And I will just curl up in that spot and have my time. Yeah.

CHAKRABARTI: And how much time is it usually? Because mornings can get very busy very quickly.

NGUYEN: Yeah. For me, I try to get around like 30 minutes.

That would be amazing.

CHAKRABARTI: Wow. Okay, 30 minutes. I'm impressed, quite frankly. (LAUGHS)

NGUYEN: Yeah.

CHAKRABARTI: And this is daily for you. Okay. I wanted to ask you that first, because before we dive into the the scientific and academic examination of solitude that you and your co-authors undertook, I just wanted to know if you practice what you're researching and indeed you do.

So I am quite impressed. So let's start off with where in the book you begin. And it's an interesting story of a 1936 solo flight, of someone named Beryl Markham, or, yeah, Markham. So who is that, and why did you, and what experience did Beryl have?

NGUYEN: Oh I think that might be something that, 'cause it has taken us two years, so I don't know, 'cause there's a lot of stories that we tell in that book.

I'm not quite sure I do remember the details of this story.

CHAKRABARTI: Okay we'll come back, we'll come back to that in a few minutes then. Let's then talk about how solitude has been perceived in different cultures, because I think the book talks about how it's often perceived in Western culture as something not positive.

Do you want to talk about that a little bit?

NGUYEN: Yeah. So I think just because historically the stories that we have found available in English unfortunately that we couldn't do more of, read more of the text in other cultures. So from the Western culture's point of view, it seems like the stories we found tend to highlight more of the lonely and isolating aspect of solitude.

With familiar concepts like solitary confinement, things like that, and also, like, some of the very common punishments back in the day is, casting people out, people going into exile. So those kinds of practices do shape our perspective and also perceptions of solitude collectively.

And whereas in other, so there has been research, cross cultural research looked into cultures that we generally tend to use the umbrella term collectivistic, but of course, there's a lot of variance in that. Is that tend to see that there's a standing hypothesis, a theory that perhaps with those cultures, depending on spiritual or religious practices, then people in collectivistic cultures might feel more comfortable or see solitude as something more positive.

Also, some cultures might values feelings like calmness and relaxation and solitude, I'm pretty sure we will touch on this later, as the conversation goes on. Is that we're going to see that calmness and relaxation is one of the key benefits. That explain why people usually seek out solitude.

CHAKRABARTI: Okay, yes, we absolutely will, we'll talk about that. So the cultural differences are really interesting, which I want to return to later. Because we got a lot of responses from listeners, and most of them just came out of a decidedly Western context, as you heard a little earlier, and many of them were even saying, I have to fight for my solitude or speak up for my solitude, as if it were something out of the norm.

So I want to return to that thought a little bit. But so as to not leave listeners hanging on the story of Beryl Markham, I pulled it up in the book here. And in the 1930s, in 1936, she became the first person to fly solo across the Atlantic from East to West.

This is how it's described in the book. Rather than from West to East, like Charles Lindbergh did first, and then Amelia Earhart did a few years after that. So in flying East to West, Beryl Markham was flying against the prevailing winds, which is what made it quite a challenging flight. And you and your co-authors write about how it's it was a harrowing experience for her.

But then the quote that really stands out is this one. Where she described being alone and sitting in the cockpit of her airplane and she said, being alone in an airplane for even so short a time as a night and a day, irrevocably alone, with nothing to observe but your instruments and your own hands in semi darkness.

Nothing to contemplate but the size of your small courage. Nothing to wonder about but the beliefs, the faces, and the hopes rooted in your mind. Such an experience can be as startling as the first awareness of a stranger walking by your side at night. And you are the stranger. How does that, her experience there fall on your ears as a scientist about what solitude, the experience of solitude is like?

NGUYEN: Yeah. So now that you've read that, so that's one piece of the story that like very first chapters of our book. Yeah. So I think a lot of people, I think that, at least, the story speak to me in the sense that we usually go through our life. We don't usually think of there will be time, because we tend to structure our time and every day around seeing other people. And there will be time where we are by ourself and who you are facing at that time would be yourself, and is that person going to be a friend or a stranger?

Actually, in the solitude literature, we speak a lot about that sense of self connection and self-reflection. And if we don't create the space and all the opportunities for ourselves to be familiar with who we are, there are points in time when we find ourselves alone. We might face that person, and we might realize who is this person?

So usually when I talk to people about my research, I tend to just ask them to do a little thought experiment, actually. Is that instead of just scheduling appointments, meetings, and social events in our calendars, so what if we just started booking time just for ourselves? Which we don't usually do.

CHAKRABARTI: You heard me smile, right? Because that sounds like such a luxury, actually.

NGUYEN: Yeah. Yeah, we fill our time with others, and it just so happens there are gaps in between them. We either embrace it, but in fact, actually, in our research, we find that there are people who find the time challenging.

And the point of the books is to also speak to that discomfort. And hopefully the book can resonate with our readers, and they can find a time for themselves and instead of being afraid of it, actually try to get familiarize themselves with it. Yeah.

CHAKRABARTI: Now when you ask people to do that thought experiment, what's the response you usually get from them at first?

NGUYEN: I usually get surprised, because people are like, 'I never thought about that.' Because I even, myself actually, I print out those little stickers for myself and I put in like just me time. And I find that it's very difficult for me, at least. So I did tell you about the 30 minutes at the beginning of my day.

That time is convenient, because the rest of the family is asleep. I intentionally wake up early so I can have that time. But once our day starts, it's very difficult to actually fit that time in.

CHAKRABARTI: Yeah. What time in the morning is your me time? How early do you have to wake up?

NGUYEN: 6 a.m.

CHAKRABARTI: Okay. Yeah. That seems somewhat reasonable. I was nervous that I'd hear you say 4:00, 4:30 in the morning.

NGUYEN: No, cause, so we don't have children yet, but I do research with first time mothers actually. And 6:00 is probably not realistic for those mothers.

CHAKRABARTI: (LAUGHS)

Part II

CHAKRABARTI: Let's listen to a couple more On Point listeners who enjoy or seek out those moments of true healthy solitude.

This is Tony Mendoza in Chicago, Illinois.

TONY MENDOZA: I'm very comfortable being alone with my thoughts. It allows my mind to wander. I seek it out because it's a form of independence, self-sufficiency. I have control over my time. Basically, it's freedom.

CHAKRABARTI: And here's Anne from Santa Fe, New Mexico.

ANNE: I just find that it brings clarity of mind and it's relaxing and calming. And I'm not a religious person, but it makes me feel a connection with something deeper that I just can't find in cities or surrounded by many other people.

CHAKRABARTI: That's Anne, who hails from Santa Fe. She also told us, though, that being in nature is how she finds and seeks her solitude. And that call that she made to us, she did while alone on a beach in Hawaii.

Professor Nguyen, Anne makes me wonder about, we should probably define the different types of solitude, right? Because, as you heard her say, she can't find the kind of solitude she seeks when in cities or surrounded by other people. She really requires that physical isolation that she can find in nature.

Is that required of physical isolation in order to achieve the benefits of solitude or are there different types of solitude?

NGUYEN: Yeah, so there are actually different forms of solitude and from talking to people the physical aloneness is not really a requirement. So in the book, we talk about that as a form of complete solitude.

So when you like being, some people might go on a retreat. So there's certain places where they can find, have their own room and then just go on a retreat with themselves, or just spending the night at home by yourself. We talk about that as complete solitude, but many people actually say that's not really something that essential for them.

Although for some, they do say that is how it's the easiest for them to find that space to stay with their thoughts. Now there's also private solitude. So that's actually also the type of solitude where you are by yourself. But when I talk about complete, actually is the kind of experience where you actually stay with your thoughts and your feelings, but at private solitude, you can spend the time alone at home, but you might do other activities.

Many people might watch TV. They might read a book. So we separate between the kind of solitude that people spend doing something, from this kind of solitude that you spent with just your thoughts. And your internal world.

CHAKRABARTI: Oh, okay. So there's a difference between solitude while doing something.

Okay. Can we focus on that for a second? Because I was under the impression that ultimately what's happening inside the brain, or the soul is actually the same. If you're in your kitchen and there's still activity going around you, but you're doing the dishes, could you not also be staying with your thoughts while doing the dishes? Is that not a common factor here?

NGUYEN: That's a tricky question. 'Cause I think that is actually the reason why we separate them just mainly for research purpose, mainly because we don't know. We don't know which activities actually will remove you from the thoughts, and which activity still allows you to stay with your thoughts.

From a few experiments that we have managed to gather data for, we find that activities like reading, for example. Usually, people can still reflect and have their thoughts and stay with their thoughts and their feelings, but other activities that we tested, which is browsing on social media, for example, might sometimes distract you away from your thoughts.

Because of that, then activities become one of, we think of that as a variable that we need to continue looking into, to see which activities that people do that actually alter and shape their solitude differently.

CHAKRABARTI: Okay. So it sounds like, but then the key thing that we are defining as the indicator of a healthy kind of solitude is a state of being, whether it's completely physically alone or even if you're surrounded by people, but a state of being in where you are able to stay with your thoughts.

NGUYEN: Yes.

CHAKRABARTI: Okay.

NGUYEN: Yes. So the people to stay with your thought is actually one of very important element. Whereas when you mentioned that we can experience solitude with other people, in the book, we also talk about companion, make solitude is when you spend time alone next to someone that you familiar with. Where both of you might just be doing something different, but in that space, you feel comfortable, and you can still be able to be yourself and be with yourself.

And that is separated from public solitude. Is when you alone, but in a public space, such as in a public park or on the bus, if people commute with public transportation. Different, higher forms of solitude. The reason that we find people talk about different forms of solitude is that it really depends on the individuals, whether or not they find solitude at different space and at different time in their day.

And in the book, we talk about the spotlight effect, where people find that some people actually don't feel comfortable being alone in public space. Because they feel like at any moment, they will be watched by someone. So yeah.

CHAKRABARTI: So we'll come back to the discomforts because I think that's really interesting.

But you've said something very powerful. Because I think our conception of solitude is it does require just being on your own, whether you're sitting at a bar, reading a book, having a glass of wine on your own. Not that I would know anything about that. Or, like you said, or being out in the woods, it's actually quite heartening to know that even just being in the presence of someone else who you're comfortable with, you don't have to necessarily be interacting, but just being in their presence can provide that same mental state.

I think that's quite eye opening. But Professor Nguyen, then let's talk about what are the benefits that people get mentally and physically and emotionally in whatever form of solitude they are having, whether it's physical solitude or that sort of companionate solitude that you were talking about.

Why is it good for us?

NGUYEN: So one of the key benefits that we have seen consistently is the effect that solitude has on our emotion. And I feel like there's a big caveat here, is because for some reason it's the important factors here is the amount of time, the length of time. And that's why, when I talked earlier, I stay within the 30 minutes.

In our studies, we usually choose the period of 15 minutes, because the longer people stay alone, we do see that it does have a negative effect on our mood, but let's just talk about a brief period when we can find during our busy day, but we can stay with ourself. It has the benefit of calming down all those strong emotions that we might experience.

So when we tend to think of strong emotion, there might be things, positive things would be like excitement, energization, but there's also strong emotion, like anger and anxiety and distress. Solitude seems to just bring down all those strong emotions and it allows the space for other more calming emotions that can emerge during that time.

CHAKRABARTI: And how are you measuring these things? Because if you're actually doing research, are you bringing folks into a lab to measure the effects of solitude on their bodies?

NGUYEN: Yeah. Typically, what we do is we bring people into the lab, and we have them spend time alone for a short period of time, either 15 minutes or 30 minutes.

And we just ask them about the emotion before they started that time. And then after they started that time, and then we look at the change in emotion. And then when I talked earlier about the consistent effect, is the drop in those strong, and we call that high arousal, high activation type of emotions.

CHAKRABARTI: Oh no, go ahead, please continue.

NGUYEN: No, because I think that, of course, that means that there's also space for us to look at things like stress, for example. And right now we're actually conducting a study that looks specifically at stress. And that when we talk about stress, then that also relates to things like physiological change, biological change.

So I think there's a lot of space for research to explore in this area. Okay, so we're at the early stages of it, because my next question was going to be, have you done, have you and your lab done like measurements on the brain yet to see if there's actual sort of discernible differences in brain activity while someone is in a period of solitude?

NGUYEN: Not specific to solitude. I think right now we can just infer from the literature on mind wandering. So earlier, one of the listeners, he talked about how solitude, he had to mind wander. And usually those mind, the brain areas that get activated when we mind wander, it was discovered usually during the time of rest.

So because of that, then we can infer some of the area of the brain, what likely to be activated when people in solitude. But that of course, it still remains, like something that we need to test.

CHAKRABARTI: I'm glad you brought up the listener who talked about having, allowing his mind to wander, because I was going to ask you about how does solitude, and again, that internal experience that you're talking about, how does it differ from meditation? And it sounds like, that there is a difference.

NGUYEN: I think there's the difference, because I think meditation is, can be one of the activities and options that people seek when they are alone. And we do see that participants and people talk about meditating or kind of practice some breathing exercise when they are alone.

However, we don't know, we can't say that is all the experiences of solitude, because people also spend time alone, doing a lot of thinking and planning. Actually, planning is like planning what I'm going to do. Later today, what I'm going to do tomorrow and do a lot of, so we tend to think of that as more the problem-solving thinking.

And sometimes it can just be any kind of free form thinking, just whatever comes to mind.

CHAKRABARTI: I see. I see. So it doesn't have to necessarily be the narrower definition of a meditative practice. But it sounds like some of the effects are somewhat similar, though. Like you said, the sense of increased well-being, relaxation.

You've heard people, just in the listeners who nourished or restored by that time in solitude. Does it also have measurable impacts on other aspects of life? I don't know, creativity.

NGUYEN: I think creativity is some of the very salient themes that our participants talk about when they spend time alone.

And when we use the word creativity, I don't mean it to be, because in the creativity literature, they talk about the big C and the little c.

I don't mean to talk about you have to have, create a painting or make a poem or a piece of music. But people also talk about hobbies, creative hobbies, play a piece of instrument, coloring or for many of our older participants, they really enjoy playing with puzzles.

So things that just allowed you to create something. Yeah.

CHAKRABARTI: Okay. I want to ask you about whether there are particular types of people who more naturally seek out and enjoy the benefits of solitude, right? Because there are probably people out there right now who are very legitimately saying, oh my God, solitude actually sounds like hell, right? Because they thrive on the energy they get from other people, and the interactions with other people. And I'm not talking about people who are like emotional vampires or anything. But folks who actually feel healthful benefits from being social.

Is there, are there kinds of personalities that are more attuned to the benefits of solitude versus others?

NGUYEN: One of the personality characteristics that we have found is, people who like to stay true to who they are, and in fact, that they be more aware of how they're feeling and their emotions. They tend to be the kind of people that actually enjoy solitude.

Actually, those people are also the one who also are likely to also enjoy interaction as well. And in fact, one of the things that we say that is surprising to us is that, in fact, we tend to think solitude and social interaction as anti-contradicting each other, but actually, someone who enjoys solitude, very likely also going to be someone who enjoys social interaction.

So the trait, the characteristic that I was talking about earlier, we call it among psychologists, we call it dispositional autonomy. Someone who like to do things accordingly to their values, their beliefs, their volitions, they tend to find time alone more comfortable and enjoyable. Now, but actually, we really hesitate to say that there is a trait, just because there's a large literature talking about how the capacity to be alone and to enjoy solitude is also shaped by our development.

So because of that, it's the skills that can be shaped.

CHAKRABARTI: So development meaning early development, childhood experiences?

NGUYEN: Yes. Okay. Yes. During either earlier redevelopment, also during adolescence as well, because that is the period of time where we have a lot of social needs, during that time.

But that might also be the time that we can build a stronger muscle for solitude as well.

Part III

CHAKRABARTI: Let's listen to a couple of more On Point listeners who told us about their experiences of solitude. This is Howard Turner from Elkhart, Indiana.

HOWARD TURNER: Walking is my source of solitude. It gives me time to think, which relieves and prevents stress buildup. Time spent alone is also time without adding stress, since there is no one else there wanting anything from or of me.

CHAKRABARTI: By the way, Howard is also a frequent contributor to our Jackpod. That's our weekly podcast only drop of special conversations with On Point news analyst Jack Beatty. Definitely check the Jackpod out. Now here is Phil Rineheart of Cambridge, Massachusetts, who says he's, quote, the poster child for aloneness because he's lived alone for the past 35 years.

PHIL RINEHEART: I love being alone and have minimal social contact, few friends, no family. I just find most social situations stressful and more trouble than they're worth. But I love living in this dense urban neighborhood where there are people in the streets. Except in COVID times. And lots of local cafes, coffee shops and casual restaurants.

I often just walk or bike between them. In fact, I make a point of visiting the busiest places at the busiest times as I find being alone in that crowd of people soothing.

CHAKRABARTI: So even though Phil's lived alone for 35 years, he's enjoying his solitude amongst the thrum of humanity in his densely populated neighborhood.

Now, Professor Nguyen, we received a voicemail from a listener who's really challenged what he considered a romanticism of solitude. And he said, there's nothing virtuous about being alone or spending time in solitude. And here's why. Unlike Phil, this other listener says he's been alone his entire life.

And he says it's the most agonizing existence possible. And he said that what we're talking about today are what he called, quote, cutesy notions of solitude. And for him, the difference is, Yeah, people might love their alone time, their solitude time, but it only feels good because they have someone to return to afterwards, who they love and who loves them.

For people who don't have that luxury, as this listener called it, solitude is actually a truly agonizing existence. And I would say that what this listener is experiencing is loneliness versus solitude. But I did want to address that head on. What would be your response to that?

NGUYEN: No, I think we definitely do not want to dismiss or invalidate the experiences of people who feel similar to this listener. Because one of the key thing that we also talk about in the book is that our social world actually also benefit and nourish our solitude world as well.

And we also talk about how it can go on the other direction as well. So there's been studies that show that people who actually have high quality with close people in their life, they actually find solitude more enjoyable. So I think that makes a lot of sense. Like just what this one listener said is that when you have people in your life that you can rely to, and then you find yourself alone, you at least have that peace of mind that there are people that I can call to when I need them.

But if you are someone who don't have someone that you can rely on, that you can reach out to, then solitude can be a very challenging space. And I do understand that and sympathetic, I'd be very sympathetic to that. One thing that I find, it's very interesting about the second person that you just played the audio just now. Is the idea of being alone, but then seek out those spaces where he can be around, he can be around other people.

CHAKRABARTI: That's right. Yes.

NGUYEN: So you see the parallel of two examples that you demonstrate, is that we can actually find solitude as a better experience when we have other people in our life.

CHAKRABARTI: It's interesting because it's two types of other social interactions that you were talking about with Phil who called us and we played his tape.

He says he actually, he loves living alone, but because, and he actually, he's satisfied having few friends and no family. That's interesting. So maybe his, just his personality is completely at ease with his form of aloneness as long as he has people to be around, when he's at a coffee shop, for example. But that other listener who I mentioned, excuse me, Professor Nguyen, I just want to spend one more minute with what he was talking about. Because while we have been talking about solitude, I'm hoping that it's fairly clear to listeners that we're not talking about something that's the equivalent experience to loneliness.

Because I think there's a very strong growing body of evidence about how the negative health effects and mental health effects and even, and physical health effects of prolonged loneliness, which is when people can't form or don't have those really important social connections that define the human experience, right?

I think there's some evidence that it's equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes per day. That the negative impact on your life, right?

NGUYEN: Yes. And that's why we try to be very careful. And I hope that not many people would find that we try to romanticize solitude, just because we try to separate it from loneliness and social isolation.

So, and then also earlier, when I talk about the period of solitude, the quantity that you can have for time alone. It's usually the benefits is often more observed in a shorter period of time, like a brief moment that you can have by yourself. And also, so one thing that we haven't talked about is the element of choice and autonomy.

Like you actually embrace that time and choose that time for yourself, is so that is very different from the experience of finding yourself alone, because you might have been, experienced social exclusion. So there has been study talking about how ostracism might be one of the trigger that actually push someone into the space of just wanting to be alone.

And when it's driven by social exclusion and ostracism. In fact, there might be some negative consequences associated with that time.

CHAKRABARTI: Yeah. And it's not by accident, I think, that in past cultures and past centuries, the worst punishment you could get short of death would be to be ostracized out of your community.

I want to come back to something that combines a few things that you said earlier. And one is, solitude achieves, when we experience a healthy kind of solitude, it achieves, you're talking about a higher degree of competence, of autonomy, that sense of I can do things for myself on my own and a kind of mental growth, a self-growth.

So combining that with the cultural picture, it occurred to me all of a sudden, Professor, that particularly for many indigenous cultures, both in the present and past, a period of solitude was oftentimes an important rite of passage for young people. And I'm thinking about the ways in which we try to achieve that in this day and age.

I don't know, like when a young person takes an outward-bound course, right? And so they're out in the woods for a few days. It's not exactly the same thing though, because it's not fully embedded into the culture as a rite of passage. I wonder what you think about, given the importance of solitude now, and what it can, how it can benefit a person, are we really denying kids and adolescents in this day and age the chance to develop through experiences of solitude?

Because they never have to exist in a state of healthy aloneness anymore. They really never do. Is that a problem?

NGUYEN: I try, I hesitate to call that a problem because I think when we tend to think, talk about societal issues, we might just zoom in on one side and not realize that this just a very wide range of parenting or educational practices that might as well build that capacity for young people.

But in the sense that if a child growing up and never get the opportunity to actually have that time for themselves, then we would think that, yes, then you will never get a chance to familiarize yourself with solitude. And I think when you say that we're denied our kids, the opportunities to grow through solitude, the conversation usually also talk about how nowadays we do have a lot of media that kind of just hypersensitizes us.

Get us all like hyper connected, we never actually have to be alone. Because we can just go on our computer, go on our phone and we're instantly connected to other people.

CHAKRABARTI: Can I just jump in here, Professor? Forgive me. I think it's not just that we're instantly connected to other people, but recalling what you had said earlier about solitude is the antidote to that hyper emotional state that we can be in, my concern, I think, for others, their concern about the constant media that people can absorb and young people is that it produces that heightened emotional state, right?

Rather than relaxing us from it.

NGUYEN: Yes. I think if anything, that emotional, so when you asked earlier about, like the personality, whether or not there's a personality that can enjoy solitude more, actually, we see more evidence to convince us that it's more like an emotion regulation capacity that allowed you to enjoy solitude.

So when there's just so many things going on, an emotional world, and you never have a chance to just hit a reset button. So then to me, that can be quite unfortunate actually, because in a recent study that we just published, we actually found that young people tend to prefer solitude when they experience those strong negative emotion, things like frustration or anxiety.

And they tend to go into solitude. What we don't know is, how can we build the capacity for them to use that time to calm down, rather than distract themselves with other things or even sometimes we might spend that time just rethinking the negative event and never get the opportunity to calm down.

CHAKRABARTI: I see. Oh, that is interesting. So they prefer being alone when in those states, but they may not necessarily be in a healthy state of solitude, in terms of having the skills to step away from that heightened emotional state. That is really fascinating. So Professor Nguyen, we've got just a couple of minutes left.

How can people listening to this, are there certain steps they can take to achieve or experience this positive kind of solitude that we've been talking about? What would be the first step?

NGUYEN: I think the first step is just ask ourselves, is solitude something I need right now at this moment?

So in the book we call this take your solitude pose. Ask yourself, can I benefit from stepping away for just a few moments? And if you feel like, Oh, that's actually, that's not something for me, then we might want to explore why that is. We might want to challenge our assumption. Because there has been work showing that have a more positive attitude and actually see solitude in a more positive light, actually also shape our solitude experience.

And another thing that I want to remind people that when, just like any kind of habit that we want to build, try not to push yourself and go all in and try to do a lot of it. We might want to stay, just stay with a small dose of solitude. Because of that, we tend to talk about it in 15 or 30 minutes, just give you some small dose of solitude.

And during that time, you might explore, what are the things that you enjoy doing during that time? So consistently we found that people find time spent alone. They feel more comfortable doing something than doing nothing. So if that's something that you feel would make it more comfortable for you, then try to think of a few things that you might enjoy.

Creative hobby is one thing that we have talked about, but many people also spend the time kind of journaling. Doing things that, compatible with the benefits of solitude, things that calming them down. So things like gardening, taking a walk in nature is, I think, one of our listeners actually mentioned that or reading.

So things that kind of allow you that space to calm down.